but broadcasting it just because we can and to be heard by the newtown families when they don't want to hear it. this is not a done deal but i hope that is the way it turns out. historic moment. could a phone call dramatically change years of tension between the u.s. and iran and put a stop to iran's nuclear ambitions. tick tock. looks like this time there is no stopping a government shutdown. we will tell you how this weekend plays out. in kenya, another devastating twist in the mall attack. what helped the terrorists go through with their plans >> gold diggers. apple may be mining for more after gold iphones have sold out.

good morning, everyone. welcome to "weekends with alex witt". here's what's happening. new reaction from here and overseas about tkraeupblg word that president obama and the new iranian president hassan rowhani spoke to the phone on friday, the highest level talk between the two countries in decades. it is a serious sign. >> the two of us discussed our ongoing efforts to reach an agreement over iran's nuclear program. i reiterated to president rowhani what i said in new york. while there are surely be certain object stals moving forward and success is by no means guaranteed, i believe we can reach a comprehensive solution. >> this phone call is a dramaist shift between the two countries. came about thursday between secretary of state john kerry and iran's prime minister. rowhani broke news of that call tweeting just minutes before

obama spoke with reporters. >> this is the biggest sign of respect that this country has gotten in 34 years from the united states s. and president rowhani has said without respect there is no relationship and no nuclear deal. it is essentially a formal recognition by the united states of a president -- of a country that the u.s. has no diplomatic relationship with. it is much more important to the iranians than a handshake. >> the last time they met jimmy carter was in office. joining me now joel ruben, former state department officer. joel, good morning to you. can you put all of this in perspective. ask the magnitude of this be overstated? >> it cannot. this was a historic week. a real break through. we're living at the hinge of history right now. and this phone call this past week, the negotiations that secretary of state kerry and the

iranian foreign minister held, this changes the entire dynamic of the u.s./iran relationship. what we are going to see going forward now is an intense issive set of diplomacy. we have meetings already scheduled for next month in geneva about iran's nuclear program. the president spoke about seeing a nuclear deal. president rowhani was in new york speaking many days about this. we are witnessing a change that truly is unique and historic and very hopeful in terms of trying to avoid a war and an iranian nuclear bomb. >> joel, why now? why didn't this happen before? because of the role of the iranian people? was it because of leadership? what has changed to profoundly? >> the significant changes have been through elections. in the united states, clearly president obama was re-elected. and he was re-elected running on the idea that he could secure our interest through diplomacy. the same can be saided in many

ways for rowhani. while in iran there was a limit as to who could run for president. he was elected out of a field of six and service seen as the most moderate candidate. he essentially got over 50% of the vote in the first round. he ran explicitly on improving iran's relations with the west, trying to find a way to end the sanctions. and he spoke about how the trade may be iran's nuclear program and how to suage concerns to relieve that pressure. >> so i want to show you a tweet from hassan rowhani shortly after the phone call. they suppressed their mutual political will to rapidly solve the nuclear issue. a couple of things here. first, we should note over in iran there wasn't a lot of congratulations, nor were there criticisms of these tweets as they got, you know, reported there in iran, which is

interesting. not much reaction. but in terms of the future, what would have to take place to resolve the nuclear issue and how quickly could that happen? >> well, we have to be very clear about this. iran is a country that is under united nations penalty. the a topic energy agency has serious questions about their nuclear program. what president obama is doing now is testing this new idea that the u.s. can get a deal with iran diplomatically. they would not need to enrich uranium up to weapons grade. it would need to open its books, and build confidence, verifiable confidence that it has no intentions of building a nuclear women weapon. we just saw in the past week the negotiations with russia over eliminating syria's chemical arsenal. now a u.n. resolution has been passed towards that end. this is difficult. it takes patience. and it takes time. >> yeah.

>> but what it does take is diplomacy. >> is a phone call as good as a face-to-face meeting. >> a phone call is a step in the right direction. clearly, there were complications in iran about a face-to-face meeting. logistics didn't work out here as well. so this is a move in the right directi direction. it will open up the space for a potential meeting between the two. >> joel ruben, thanks. appreciate it. >> thank you. two days before a possible government shut skroupb, president obama is doubling down with republicans battling over that budget. >> many republican senators and many republican governors urged republicans to knock it off, pass a budget and move on. >> the senate passed a bill that would fund past the end of the fiscal year. it does not strip funding for

obama care. so the bill now goes back to the gop-led house. at the same time, tea party senators ted cruz and mike lee will try to influence debate in the house. the two have had numerous conversations with house members. >> the house of representatives stood up, acted, united to defund obama care. thief listened to the american people. that was the right thing to do. i am hopeful that the house of representatives will continue to do the right thing. >> joining me now congressional reporter for a little bit coed o'keefe. >> the "washington post". >> oh, yeah. you know what, that's right. wait. let me have another sip of my coffee. okay. moving on. all right, ed. we have all been watching this play out. tell us what happens this weekend. is the government going to shut down?

>> it is looking increasingly likely. the house will meet at noon today on capitol hill to discuss their steps. there's a leading conservative proposal that would amend the bill, just delaying obama care by one year and continuing government operations. now it's got the support of at least 62 republicans. they know full well that a democratic controlled senate has no interest in passing that. but they say this is what they should do. they can pass it. get it back to the senate and leave it in their laps as the deadline approaches. >> okay. two major deadlines coming up. if it doesn't get passed, the government shuts down tuesday. if they do not vote to increase the debt ceiling, the government will default on some of its legal obligations as early as october 17th. here's what the president said about that all late yesterday afternoon. >> some republicans have suggested that unless i agree to an even longer list of demands,

not just gutting the health care law but cutting taxes for millionaires or rolling back big banks, polluters or other pet projects they would like to see, that they would push the button, throw america into default for the first time in history. >> so the list of demands from republicans on the debt ceiling and the shut down, what do they want? >> the first investigation of the house debt ceiling bill had an array of conservative goodies. one-year delay of owe many about ma care. approval of the pipeline, expedite tax reform, rolling back some provisions in the dodd/frank law. it didn't get support among the house republican conference. we were supposed top vote on that sometime today, maybe even yesterday. sort of to allow house leadership to show, look, the health care issue, we can litigate that fight in the debt

ceiling battle where they believe leverage is better for them. house leadership did not appear to have enough votes to pass it with republican votes alone. a lot of conservatives i talked to said there are goodies in here but we need more spending cuts. that's what the debt ceiling is about. >> ed, as far as the congress, has congress ever held the white house hostage with regard to the debt ceiling before? >> no. the president is correct in pointing that out that, you know, normally, through history, as this has had to happen, they have always raised it. sometimes there has been some back and forth. remember back in the day when he was a senator, then senator obama raised concern about the debt ceiling. this idea put forth that congressional republicans were holding the white house hostage, that's a little bit of a phruter. but the the government has never defaulted and the ceiling has always been raised. >> say it does shut down

tuesday. the affordable care act, obama care, however you want to talk about it, will still be implemented. think recent poll shows 45% of people heard nothing at all about the health insurance marketplace that are mandated by law. how much confusion is out there around this? >> there's a lot of confusion. unfortunately for the obama administration there have been some delays and what they call glitches in the rollout. we saw the latest come out this past week where the administration said they are postponing enrollment in small business exchanges is, as well as spanish language, which is central internet clearinghouse for the affordable care act. that's going to be delayed as well. right now a lot of things that the administration has worked out. but the essential heart of the law, they are open for enrollment october 1st. individual mandate kicks in 2014. that's why conservatives really want to fight this obama care

battle now before the lobby comes even more implemented. >> bottom line, ed, what do you think? does it shut down or not? >> it looks like it's going to happen, alex. there's two factors. one, the fact that they are so far apart on an agreement. even if the house does pass something, the way the senate normally works it can take days for a bill to get through the chamber unless ever single senator can speed up the process. as we have seen the last few weeks there is a small collection who want to slow this down, use every procedural means yesterday to make sure something is down obama care. if they insist they are not making any changes to the law, this will prolong itself. if you are a nonessential government employ year, start looking at the movie listings for tuesday because you are probably not going to work. >> that is a pretty good assessment there. for a lot of budget battles in the last few years, there's

always been some sort of deal at the 11th hour. right now really depends on with what the house republicans come up with today. if they send anything back with a tiny change the senate is slow moving. it's going to be a lot harder for them to avoid a shut down. >> where do you work again, ed o'keefe? >> "washington post". >> we got it. thanks, guys. >> take care. new details about the death of a pilot in the middle of a big commercial flight. why what happened to him is not so uncommon. >> the price of milk could go up to $8 a gallon. you may know exactly who to blame. build character through quality. and earn the right to be called a classic. the lands' end no iron dress shirt. starting at 49 dollars.

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we're mindful of all the challenges ahead. the very fact that this was the first communication between an american and iranian president since 1979 underscores the

deepest between our countries. but it also indicates the prospect of moving beyond that difficult history. >> president obama signaling the possibility of a drastic shift in u.s./iran relations debunking that diplomatic road might be. kristin welker, good saturday morning to you. is there an indication from the white house that is is proceeding with caution here? >> reporter: oh, absolutely. i think there is still deep skepticism on both sides really, alex. i've been talking to foreign policy experts who say this could mark a new beginning in the relationship between the united states and iran. they say it will be important for both sides to keep the momentum going if they hope to get agreement on the program. a potential break marked by a phone call a that will go down in history. with the budget battle looming, a surprise foreign policy announcement from the president telling reporter he called

hassan rowhani friday. senior administration officials say the call lasted about 15 minutes and came after rowhani turned down a request for a handshake at president obama this week. after fruitful discussions between secretary of state john kerry and his iranian partnership, they came around. they tweeted news of the call before mr. obama spoke to reporters. >> a path to a meaningful agreement will be difficult, but i believe we've got a responsibility to pursue diplomacy. >> mr. rowhani, who tweeted a photo of himself smiling after the phone call. he also made assurances during a recent interview with ann curry. >> translator: we have never pursued or sought nuclear weapons, and we are not going to do so. >> it's been more than 30 years

since there were top-level talks between the u.s. and i'm ran, dating back to president jimmy carter just before the iranian islamic revolution. >> it's not very often that you can see the hinge of history moving. you may have seen that this week. a step-by-step process that can fund memorily change one of the key relationships in the middle east and in the world. >> reporter: u.s. officials say it is important for them to reassure key allies, particularly israel. israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu to visit the white house, a previously scheduled trip. following u.s./iran relations, where do you see this going? i'll read some of your tweets throughout the day. frightening moments in the skies of idaho when a captain of

a 737 suffered a fatal heart attack in flight. the 63-year-old pilot became ills while at the controls. tom costello is joining us. what a heartbreaking story and frightening. >> i was going to say the same thing. heartbreaking for the family of this captain. it happened at about 30,000 feet or so. we do see medical emergencies fairly routinely. it is rare for it to involve a crew member, but it does happen. it was just after 7:30 last night when the the first officer radioed boise airport. 1603 was flying from houston to seattle when the 63-year-old captain apparently suffered a heart attack at the controls. >> we've got a man down, chest compressions goings on right now. i'm not sure too much right now status. but can an ambulance and maybe some air stairs meet us off the

runway? >> united 1603, we'll get that going. >> an off-duty pilot jumped into the cockpit, while two army doctors performed cpr. >> they kept the cpr going the the whole time we were in the air. >> despite efforts, the captain died at a boise hospital. most involve passengers and aren't so serious. according to a recent study, 37% are related to fainting, followed by respiratory and air sickness, just over 7% of all emergencies require the plane to divert. >> no chest pain, no shortness of breath. >> 27 times a day flight crews call the university of pittsburgh. one of two med center that assess a patient's condition from the ground. >> patients whom we have a high suspicion of heart attack or stroke could be diverted to the closest airport and subsequently to the closest hospital. >> pilots undergo physical

checkups if under 40, twice if they are over 40. >> one of the reasons there are two pilots in the airplane is in case one is incapacitated. it is part of the redundancy city we use in aviation for safety. >> back on flight 1603. >> good thing we had a good co-pilot. >> the passengers landed safely in seattle just after midnight. >> i was on a plane when a passenger suffered a stroke, alex. the pilot declared an emergency and asked everyone to stay seated until we landed when paramedics would board. wouldn't you know it, as soon as possible we landed people got up and got in the way of the paramedics. they said if you don't sit down, i will have you arrested. they sat down pretty quickly and they treated this woman who was having a stroke. >> my father is a surgeon. he on more than one occasion over the years flying helped passengers as well.

i'm awfully proud when he does it. it's frightening because you have limited access to what you might need. scary revelation on halloween spending. head over to facebook and like us, won't you? [ female announcer ] who are we? we are the thinkers. the job jugglers. the up all-nighters. and the ones who turn ideas into action. we've made our passions our life's work. we strive for the moments where we can say, "i did it!" ♪ we are entrepreneurs who started it all... with a signature. legalzoom has helped start over 1 million businesses, turning dreamers into business owners.

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now to three big money headlines. scared stingy. gold finger too. "usa today" contributor regina lewis. >> i would say hey big spender is missing. slowly coming back. it's going to be a long one and looks like a slow one. not going as quickly as people might expect. the best news is on the jobs

front. lowest unemployment numbers in six years. suggesting that the layoffs are over. so people's wages slowly going up. they're going to be careful about spending. sooner or later it will kick in. >> what about halloween? just a few weeks away now. a new survey might scare the the fun out of the popular holiday. >> it is expected to be down. i'll give you a not so scary reason why. this is really interesting. from 2008 to 2011 in particular halloween spending is way up. how can this be in great recession? there's a school of thought that says if you know you have to be tight around christmas, go all out at halloween. it's cheaper to be a festive halloween than to blowout the christmas season. you walk into both halloween and christmas displace. if you loaded up on all that stuff from 2008 to 2011 you

don't need it anymore. you buy a pumpkin, the mums grow back. and there's a huge secondary market for costumes on the internet and thrift shops. >> what about new ipads? what is coming our way making the ones different from the others? >> mild as touch. gold. we know the iphone 5 sold out in gold. it is now, and this is just a rumor, leaking things about apple products as a global sport. they are suggesting it might come out october 15th. i'm go out on a limb and say that will be the must have christmas gift of the year. mini 2 and ipad. jimmy fallon's sesame street moment. they got together to record the show's theme song. it got 1.3 million hits on youtube so far. ♪

welcome back to "weekends with alex witt". the house is expected to meet with just two days until the threat of a government shutdown. it comes a day after the senate passed a bill that funds until the end of the fiscal year and does not strip funding for obama care. president obama addressed reporters after that vote. >> house republicans will have to decide whether to join the senate and keep the government open or shut it down. because they can't get their way. on an issue that has nothing to do with the deficit. >> nbc's luke is on capitol hill. luke, good morning to you. what happens next? >> that's the million dollar question with, alex. no one really knows for sure. we are here on a rare weekend

session on saturday where house speaker is calling the house back into session to try to figure out a way forward. it depends on the house gop conference. they have procedural votes. they meet as a conference around noon. after that meeting we'll have somewhat of an idea how they want to play this. so far there has been this dedicated group of house gop members that do not want to fund the government if there are any funds for the president's health care law attached. they've really been invigorated by senator ted cruz in texas and the stand he took on the senate floor. >> i am hopeful and optimistic that the next time this continuing resolution is before the senate in the next few days that all 46 senate republicans stand united arm and arm with the house republicans and against the train wreck, the nightmare that is obama care. and i'm hopeful as well that

some democrats show the courage to listen to their constituents. >> so, alex, despite the fact that the president said he would veto any government funding bill that takes out funds for his health care law and despite the fact senate democrats will move that legislation on the floor, there's still is a very aggressive block of house republicans that want to try to attach something that goes after the president's health care law since they received this back from the senate. what they have attached, we don't know. maybe a tax on medical devices. talk of limiting contributions from the government into congressional staffers health care funds. all sorts of things have been thrown around. if you change that senate bill by even a comma, it delays the process through the parliamentary procedure. that makes the government shutdown monday at midnight all the more likely. if we don't vote on something today that's not a clean bill, more than likely than not we will have a government shutdown

for a few days. lastly, i would just say this. it's very evident, alex that speaker boehner will need democrat votes to move this forward. >> yeah. >> the question now, when does he actually accept that and decide that's the way? he's going to have to let these more conservative members air out their grievances a little longer. he will need it to get it across the finish line. >> and the medical devices tax the president said that's a nonstarter. there's no negotiating on things like that. >> they are all nonstarters. part of it is how long do they want to continue to struggle. there's no magical formula that's going to make democrats want to get rid of the president's health care law. the president is never going to veto it. this is an exercise in futility but it is also exercise of showmanship to get the base fired up. >> all right. and it keeps you working a little bit of o.t. with me. >> i want to miss college football for this, absolutely. >> i can hear the crew laughing

at that one, too like yeah, right. >> shutting down the government costs can be enormous. the last two, five-day stoppage in november of 1995 and 21-day shutdown from mid-december that year to early january '96. combined losses added up to $1.4 billion. but in today's dollars, that's more than $2 billion. those losses, however, don't include the the value of lost work and income that would have generated for the government. time is running out down on the farm. if congress does not pass a new farm bill, the biggest impact after the first of the year when subsidies would send dairy prices soaring. the result could lead to milk costing $8 a gallon. hassan rehandy back in eye rain where he was met by supporters and protesters. joining me from tehran is nbc's ali. good day to you.

i understand protesters were throwing food and shoes at rowhani at the airport. what have you seen? >> that's right, alex. a rather mixed reception on his arrival back from the united states. there was about 200 people at the airport, about 100 of them there to tpwraoet him. they were giving him cheers and positive slogans. they even sacrificed a lamb for him at the airport. but he had detractors there as well. hard liners from the system in iran had also shown up. they were very, very upset he had a phone call conversation with president owe bam a ma. when he entered his car, he was pelted with toe tatos, rotten eggs and shoes as well. the whole incident lasted 15, 20 seconds and his security detail whisked him away. this highlights how sensitive the relationship between iran and america is. the telephone call may have opened up a new chapter, but it has also opened up divisions within the country.

mr. rowhani has to treed a very, very careful line. this is one indication why he avoided a photo-op with president obama. a photo is worth a thousand words. these thousand words that happened here riled up a lot of feathers here. i can only mantle what would have happened if that photo had been released. he was very careful to the moves he made. nonetheless, this does signal a new chapter between america and iran. something we haven't seen in over 30 years. two presidents haven't spoken to each other since the late shah of iran and jimmy carter. these are very fine balanced. >> thank you for the update here. chuck todd reports the white house has briefed israel on the conversation with the iranian leader. it will no doubt be discussed when prime minister benjamin netanyahu visit isseded on monday. i'm joined by democratic congressman tim ryan, member of

the appropriations and budget committees. representative ryan, thank you for joining me on this saturday morning. >> great to be with you. >> may i get your reaction, sir, of this phone call between the president and iranian positive. >> sure. positive first step. you can see by the recent reporting that it's a very ditch issue in iran. it's also a very difficult issue here. but i think it's positive. i think we just continue to move forward, have these kinds of conversations. and i'm glad the president is engaging at this level. >> okay. . all right. we move to the possible government shutdown. republican senator tomko burn talked about it yesterday. let's take a listen to this. >> the only time you shut down the government is when you shut it down and refuse to open it until you get accomplished what you want. we'll fold like hot cakes if they shut down the white house. >> tomko burn is a republican.

do you buy that the house conservatives will fold? >> i'm not sure. they have done a nice job holding the line. i think a lot of them in that caucus think somehow shutting down the government would be a badge of honor. they've got to go back to these extremely conservative tea party factions in their congressional districts that are republican districts. but the primary determines who the congressperson is. and you have to have the support of the extreme right wing, the extreme tea party groups. so i think these members are in step with their congressional district, at least that very small faction they need in order to make it out of a republican primary to order to become the congressperson down here. that's really what's scary. you have that very small groupon that extreme right wing controlling government here. and really there is a hostage situation here. >> yeah. what are you willing to compromise on to avoid a shutdown? and also are you getting leaks

or impressions that there is anything that that faction of the republican house would be willing to compromise on? >> no. no. these are things -- these are not up for negotiation, do you keep the government running, do you pay the bills. you know, and if you don't, you could, you know, completely collapse the full faith and credit of the united states. those aren't things you negotiate about. you pass those long and you sit down and you get back to regular order where you negotiate the budget process. i have not heard anything from the extreme conservative tea party faction other than defunding or delaying the president's obama care plan that we implemented a few years ago. and the thing about it is this doesn't make any sense. there's a democratic senate. there's a democratic president who doesn't have to run for reelection. has three more years in office. he's not going to sign anything that defunds his signature

legislative achievement. the thing, the program that's providing health care for millions and millions of young kids. we're going to throw them off? we're foggy to put lifetime caps back on insurance? we're going to put back you can deny people insurance because of pre-existing conditions? the president is not going to do that. the senate is not going to do that. come back to reality and let's have a real honest negotiation in the regular order in the budget process. >> let's look ahead to next year's midterms. why would the voters from either party choose to re-elect people who put them in this crisis? >> well, i think if you look closely, if you're paying attention you see it's the stur borness of the tea party. president obama won ohio. it is 12 republicans to 4

democrats. and i think if you look close you will see it is this control from the extreme tea party of the republican side that is governing things today. so i think democrats have a heck of a shot of getting the house back because most independents and moderate republicans are going to say we can't have this anymore. we can't have a conservative tea party member representing moderate, even keeled pragmatic republicans. they would rather put in a conservative moderate democrat at least to get the machinery of government moving again. so if they pay close attention they will see where the problem is and that's at the tea party. >> one thing i do know for sure, you have a long working weekend ahead of you, sir. thank you for spending part of the weekend with us. >> thanks. and office politics on a landmark school that's trying to reinvent itself. (announcer) at scottrade, our clients trade and invest

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politics, journalists and author alison stewart, allison's new book "first class" looks at the rich and often overlooked story of the dunbar school which opened in 1870 as a america's first public high school for black students. allison decided to chronicle its history for very personal reasons. >> out of this high school, this high school my parents went came the first black general in the army, first black presidential cabinet member, first black judge. they told me to show what contributions african-americans have made for the united states. we don't get that in my history class. i thought, wow, this is an mazing place. i was in d.c. a lot. and i said to somebody. i said, hey, i'm going to go see dunbar. they said, oh, they have a great football team. i said, yeah, they do.

but what about all these graduates? the jazz musician, the artists. and they had no idea about dunbar's history. and when i went over to the school, i saw the history was being lost. even some of the kids there didn't know. and i thought i need to write this down before it gets lost. >> you had incredible teachers. your parents had these ph.d. professors at this level. was that because these well educated black citizens, academics, they had nowhere else to go. >> they couldn't teach at the college level. they couldn't teach at the college level. some were very bitter about it. some of the very colleges they graduated from wouldn't have them on staff. some of them when they went to the colleges couldn't even live on the campuses. they had to go live in private apartments. they did corner some of the market on some of the best talent. and i think you'll see, you

know, barack and michelle obama might have been teachers. people of that caliber probably would have been teachers. that is interesting of black middle class across the country. teachers are held in high regard, with great esteem. >> you talk about the talent that was brought to dunbar. students like your dad moved from harlem down to washington just to attend that school. >> yeah. my dad was a very bright, smart-mouthed kid. my grandmother used to say no one said joe stewart and high school in the same sentence. she packed him up to live with the the parents to go to dunbar. he really had a hard time. i went from integrated school to segregated. he didn't understand why he was walking by three high schools to go to high school. he thought in the nation's capital, this is happening? it activated a junior activist in him. and he became part of some

protests. he had a hard time with it on the one side. on the other side, he understood what this was going to mean for him. the state of high school education is. today in dunbar, it's bittersweet. today, today, dunbar is attempting a resurgence. it had fallen in disrepair t. gorgeous gothic building had been replaced in the '70s, all the problems in the neighborhood came right in. the school suffered academically. it failed no child left behind five years in a row. it had to be reconstituted. a brand-new dunbar high school opened this year. >> awesome. >> it's beautiful. they have done some smart things architecturally. there are plaques all over the floor with the names of the illustrious graduates and what they have done so the kids will know it.

>> at noon today, we talk about how dunbar defied segregation, plus the scholarships for students to get help pursuing their education. one year after a terrorist attack in kenya, it can cause alarm at shopping malls around this globe. take these bags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjorn's small business earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth ] why settle for less? ahh, oh! [ garth ] great businesses deserve unlimited rewards. here's your wake up call. [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase every day. what's in your wallet? [ crows ] now where's the snooze button? ♪[ crows ] ♪

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>> a new and startling attack in 16ia. they tell nbc news the terrorists have rented a store in the mall for more than a year as they plotted their massacre him it not only provided them with a staging area. it gave them a place to store weapons. dozens of fbi agents remain at that mall helping kenyan officials investigate. joining me now jim cavanaugh hostage negotiator, jim joins me on the phone. sorry we are having camera difficulties, jim. can we assess how much of an advantage that gave the

attackers. they have a store inside that mall? >> reporter: oh, it's unbelievable advantage, alex. really it goes between the linkup of al shabab and al qaeda a a couple weeks ago. al qaeda is extensive in planning their attacks, by dispatching operational commanders and planners. we seen it in all the real al qaeda attacks and closely connected affiliates. >> that shows that signature. yes, if you can go in there and stage heavy weapons and ammunition, of course, ten or 15 shooters, it's a devastating attack like we saw last week. >> absolutely t. attacks on the west gate mall in kenya, mall, movie theaters, what's the likelihood that will happen here? can our intel peck up on the chatter in the planning staejs to avoid this? >> we are the best at it.

nobody comes close to interrupt these people. all these people have military capability, but they can get through. the template that they're trying to get to. this is one of the templates like mumbai. mum boy is something no law enforcement commander should ever forget. they should all go back and re-review after mumbai when that attack happened. fwaufs multiple shooters. ten or so across the city. hotels, training stations, just a long, drawn out hostage murder spreement they want that because it prolongs the event. that's what they also wanted in kenya. it prolongs the event to hold the hostages. they don't want hostages for the traditional, you know, to get the theater of terrorism. that's what they got in mumbai. they got a few days. here they got a few days. >> they absolutely did.

>> jim caf narcotics we will talk about this and other matters. weekends with alex witt. join me today at noon eastern time. meanwhile, up next, steve cornnetic on msnbc. we went out and asked people a simple question: how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age.

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